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Unique .22 F11 (FAMAS)

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Message par MarkF le 23/5/2013, 18:54

Hello everybody,
please excuse writing in English but I do not speak/write/understand the French language - in school I have learned as foreign laguages only English and Latin. And I assume that more people here understand English than Latin or my native language German.
Anyway - I am looking for the .22-rimfire-version of the FAMAS F1 called F11, made by Unique, so not a "real" GIAT-F1 but only an X51bis in a F1-similar-plastic-case. W/o knowledge of the language it is very, very difficult, nearly impossible, to search for opportunities to buy. So I would like to ask for some hints where I mabby can find one specimen of the F11.
Best regards
Mark

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Message par titi.4600 le 23/5/2013, 19:06

Hello

Could you introduce youself in the link below ? (Even in English it matters Wink )

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

To answer your question the F11 is very rare and when there is one being sold it's almost immediatly bought.
So you've to be pretty lucky to get one. I'll ask "Mad max" to get more information for you Wink (He owns one by the way)

Why do you like this rifle so much ?
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Message par Pistol&revolv le 23/5/2013, 19:20

Hello Mark !

First, welcome on the 22lr forum, which is now an international forum ^^ ! Unique .22 F11 (FAMAS) 1666600104

Unique f11 is a rare model, in all over the world, and in France !
In France this rifle is in "4th category" so I think that import from France to a foreign country will be difficult... It may be easier if you live in Germany...
Madmax has this gun and I think he'll able to give you some information about this gun.

Opportunities to buy this gun are rare like this gun, probably because users love it and keep it affectedly ^^

Good luck for your searches Wink

Edit : burned by Titi Unique .22 F11 (FAMAS) 2739476978
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Message par MarkF le 23/5/2013, 19:46

Oops. I have answered in a long post to titi.4600´s post - but is is lost! :-(
Once again reduced to the import information: I need/want the F11 for my collection of airguns and rimfire-guns with military look.
Introducing is done.
@ Pistol et revolv: I don´t know much about your weapon-law but because the F11 can be owned by "normal" people I assume (or hope) there should be no major problem to export it legally. Espec. because it is inside a very normal X51bis, a normal semi-auto-rimfire, and the F1-looking "stand alone" case is only a piece pf plastic which sould be owned and sold w/o any problem. But you will know it better ...
I have importet a lot of military looking airguns form Switz, USA, Czech, UK w/o problems and as far as I know there are also owned some F1 in .222 in Germany, so the "outfit" of the F11 should not be unsolvable problem.

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Message par Hithesun le 23/5/2013, 20:03

The F-11 is classed "4th category" in France because it's a semi-auto rifle with a magazine containing more than 3cartridges, it's unbilievable but true Neutral

So I think it will be difficult to import a weapon to your country, cause the weapon in 4th category are submissed to strict conditions for possession.

Also, they are submissed to strict conditions for selling/aquire it.
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Message par titi.4600 le 23/5/2013, 20:05

Hithesun is right Neutral

However the only piece of advice I can give you is to keep an eye on forum such as : [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] (It's the biggest)
and on vending site like [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

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Message par Pistol&revolv le 23/5/2013, 20:14

Ok, I don't know very well import/export regulations, and the legislation in your country... but we are her talking about a 22 long rifle gun, not an airgun ?!

In France, all the semi auto rifles are submitted to very trict laws... like a 357magnum revolver :( Strange, isn't it ?

I don't know how does import/export works from France to Germany but you can explain it if you want Smile

Then you can also show us your collection, we like airguns too Wink
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Message par MarkF le 23/5/2013, 20:16

So it is not a question of the military outfit but the working (semi-auto with more than 3 rounds)? So also owning of the X51bis has the same limitations, owning of every AR15 (.223 as .22), every M1 Carbine, every Erma EM1 (M1-design in .22)?

Of course I do not know the export-regulation in France in respect to semi-automatic guns but it should be not a large problem to check this (and because there is no European-restriction I assume that exporting must be licenseable). Importing a simple semi-automatic rifle (which is not a war-weapon as e.g. the M16 or the FAMAS F1 itself or a M14 or a "real" AK) into Germany is no problem. Everybody who is entitled to posses this gun (of course every dealer) can get the license for import (and it is not to expensive). Even as member of a shooting club and member of e.g. the BDS I can own 2 pistols/revolvers and 3 semi-automatic rifles (there are some minor limitations: No war-weapon, no bullpup, no cartridge-lenght below 40mm _and_ looking like military gun) w/o need of additional license or additional conditions. So owning M1, AR15, AK in .223 is no problem.

Thanks for the link - but they do not work. Also not [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] - the browser reports: [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] refused the connection. Off limits? Strange.


Dernière édition par MarkF le 23/5/2013, 20:30, édité 1 fois

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Message par titi.4600 le 23/5/2013, 20:25

Strange indeed.
For the legislation yes that's it. Every weapon in semi-auto with more that 3 rounds regardless of the caliber or the barrel lengh are in 4th categorie.
This means it will be very difficult (or even impossible) for you to get one.
Try to get information from your side to get, as a german, a weapon classed in 4th categorie in France.

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Message par MarkF le 23/5/2013, 20:35

titi.4600 a écrit:Strange indeed.
For the legislation yes that's it. Every weapon in semi-auto with more that 3 rounds regardless of the caliber or the barrel lengh are in 4th categorie.
This means it will be very difficult (or even impossible) for you to get one.
Try to get information from your side to get, as a german, a weapon classed in 4th categorie in France.

As mentioned, importing into G is not the problem. The F11 is a simple rimfire-semiauto, not a war-weapon or else generally forbidden in G, I am entitled to own it in Germany (as a semiauto cilvil F1, too), so the problem is "only"
a) find/buy one and
b) the French export-regulation of semi-auto-rifles.
a) seems to be the major and serious problem ... :-(

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Message par Hithesun le 23/5/2013, 20:49

Yes, the military look doesn't matter, but the system is important, to be very clear in France the 1st and 4th category are categories that only some people can access, under certains conditions (shoot in approved shooting range only, stocked in safe), you have to understand that we're trying to say is not : the weapon can't be imported, but just, knowing the law about this gun in France (maybe the hardest in world for a "free" country), I guess it will be difficult.

In France all transaction for the weapon of this type are done with a police officer or a gunsmither who oversees the trade and record changes of property in the national register of arms, here you just CANNOT ow this gun if you don't shoot 3times a year in a club, with a stamp on a book for evidence, and you can't sell it to someone else (exept a gunsmith) without strict conditions and notify autorities.

So I guess it will be difficult to import even if in your country you can aquire that.

Sorry for my bad English, didn't practice for so long Very Happy
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Message par titi.4600 le 23/5/2013, 20:55

It's funny beacause you both say "My English is bad" but it's far to be Unique .22 F11 (FAMAS) 2006489282
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Message par MarkF le 23/5/2013, 22:41

Hithesun a écrit:Yes, the military look doesn't matter, but the system is important, to be very clear in France the 1st and 4th category are categories that only some people can access, under certains conditions (shoot in approved shooting range only, stocked in safe), you have to understand that we're trying to say is not : the weapon can't be imported, but just, knowing the law about this gun in France (maybe the hardest in world for a "free" country),

This is not very different to our legal situation here in Germany in reg. to _every_ firearm: Member in a shooting club for at minimum 1 year with monthly activity _and_ after receiving the license also monthly activity. One can buy max. 2 firearms in 6 months, w/o fullfilling further requirements max. 2 pistols/revolvers and (when member in e.g. BDS, BDMP) 3 semiauto rifles, buying of this limited weapons must be licensed in advanced, keeping of weapon and ammu at home only in safes. Shooting of every firearm is only allowed on shooting ranges, no taking of firearm with one except transport to range or gunsmith ... in toto harder than in France but not so hard as in UK.

I guess it will be difficult.

Give me a chance to buy and I will get this gun to G.

In France all transaction for the weapon of this type are done with a police officer or a gunsmither who oversees the trade and record changes of property in the national register of arms, here you just CANNOT ow this gun if you don't shoot 3times a year in a club, with a stamp on a book for evidence, and you can't sell it to someone else (exept a gunsmith) without strict conditions and notify autorities. So I guess it will be difficult to import even if in your country you can aquire that.

I don´t see a serious limitation. The worst case would be that the seller sells to a gunsmith and the gunsmith sells to me - or to a German dealer/gunsmith if necessary - according the Euroepan law for international gundeals. So I have to pay additional the gunsmith for his service. Makes the deal a little bit more expensive.



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Message par Invité le 24/5/2013, 08:35

Hy Mark, in france when you want to import a gun, a rifle or amunition you need to pay taxes, to french custom , I Know now that in germany there is the export license (german Prior Consent) so for import you should have the same , this must be managed by your gunsmither (more or less 10% of cost)

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Message par MarkF le 24/5/2013, 11:50

expresso a écrit:Hy Mark, in france when you want to import a gun, a rifle or amunition you need to pay taxes, to french custom , I Know now that in germany there is the export license (german Prior Consent) so for import you should have the same , this must be managed by your gunsmither (more or less 10% of cost)

No, within EU no custom-tax or VAT must be paid. Only when importing from outside EU.
As mentioned I myself can get the import-license, from the view of Germany (EU) law I can do this by my own and do not need assistance of a licensed dealer or gunsmith. The German "transfer" of the EU-regulations say: In general I need a permission for importing a firearm to Germany. I will get this permission when I am entitled for owning this firearm. When the firearm is loacted in another EU-country so this permissions will be given as approval (approbation/consentement) to the permission of the foreign country for exporting the fiearm (so that this approval alone is not sufficient and I need at the custom this approval _and_ the foreign permission for export).
It is very interesting, that all this EU-regulations which should make dealing within EU simplier and easier, means in this case much more effort: When importing e.g. from USA I need only my German import-license which I will get when I am entitled to own the firearm. Does´nt matter whether the foreign country where the gun is located allows the export in general or not or whether the seller is entitled for export. But within EU my "personal"/national license for importing is not sufficient but I need additional the exporting-license of the foreign seller. Shit EU.
Here is this regulation in German
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
and here in English
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
(see Section 29)
So the French seller has to get an export-license. I do not know how this regulation is in France and I also would not understand the Frech text of the law; but I assume it is very similar to the regulation here in Germany because it is a regulation in regard of dealing within EU and so an European regulation which must be nearly identical. Our German regulation for export weapons is in § 31 WaffG, see in German
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
and in English the above link at Section 31.
So: When I want to export a weapon e.g. to France I need the importing permission of the buyer. When the import into France is licensed I will get the export-permission by the German Gouvernment.
When your French regulations for export are similar the importing to Germany is no problem: I will get the import-permission because I am entitled to own a F11 and the French seller will get the export-permission because I have got the import-permission (as necessary condition for the export-permission). So the only open question is: What does your French law say in regard of exporting this firearm into another EU-country?

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Message par titi.4600 le 24/5/2013, 13:12

Try to reconnect on [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
The problem came from the forum itself but it should work now Wink
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Message par MarkF le 24/5/2013, 13:35

titi.4600 a écrit:Try to reconnect on [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
The problem came from the forum itself but it should work now Wink

Thanks! Now it is working.

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Message par titi.4600 le 24/5/2013, 13:52

It's the biggest forum about shooting. Keep an eye on the selling section, you'll maybe see a F11. Wink

And for information only 1000 F11 were made

content
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Message par MarkF le 24/5/2013, 14:00

titi.4600 a écrit:It's the biggest forum about shooting. Keep an eye on the selling section, you'll maybe see a F11. Wink
And for information only 1000 F11 were made
content

Thanks. A similar low number as the airgun FA.MAS Commando - not much more than 1200 as I have readed.

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Message par Mad Max le 15/9/2013, 18:09

Bonjour si quelqu'un veut un F11 il y en a un à vendre ici :
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
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Message par MarkF le 15/9/2013, 21:03

Mad Max a écrit:Bonjour si quelqu'un veut un F11 il y en a un à vendre ici :
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
Yes. I have found this offer last year already. But the dealer seems to be not very interested in selling; he does not want to get the permission for selling/shipping to Germany. AFAIK this is not really difficult (the same regulations within the EU; I can get the permission in Germany w/o problems, I only need the permission of the foreign buyer for import) but I can not force him. But the price seems to be a little bit to high, too.

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Message par Mad Max le 15/9/2013, 22:08

Les occasions sont très rares sur le marché s'il s'en échanges 5 ou 6 par année c'est le bout du monde .
Alors forcément les prix sont à la hauteur de la rareté .
Un F 11 c'est une arme à part dans la production .
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Message par Pistol&revolv le 16/9/2013, 15:02

MarkF a écrit:
Mad Max a écrit:Bonjour si quelqu'un veut un F11 il y en a un à vendre ici :
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
Yes. I have found this offer last year already. But the dealer seems to be not very interested in selling; he does not want to get the permission for selling/shipping to Germany. AFAIK this is not really difficult (the same regulations within the EU; I can get the permission in Germany w/o problems, I only need the permission of the foreign buyer for import) but I can not force him. But the price seems to be a little bit to high, too.
Unfortunatly, we can understand the dealer... It's more simple for him to sold firearms to french shooters, and in spite of the price, I think that he'll sell it quickly.

I hope you will find one quickly !
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Message par MarkF le 16/9/2013, 15:37

Pistol&revolv a écrit:Unfortunatly, we can understand the dealer... It's more simple for him to sold firearms to french shooters, and in spite of the price, I think that he'll sell it quickly.
I hope you will find one quickly !
He is offering the rifle since more than one year. Obviously there are not really a lot of people who are willing to pay such a lot of money for this simple .22-system in the F1-housing. And the only reason why I would pay this price that I can not buy it in Germany because it was never sold here.
I would appreciate the assistance of anybody here in getting this rifle ... and of course not only for "mercy".

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Message par pierre78 le 16/9/2013, 15:59

Mad Max a écrit:Les occasions sont très rares sur le marché s'il s'en échanges 5 ou 6 par année c'est le bout du monde .
Alors forcément les prix sont à la hauteur de la rareté .
Un F 11 c'est une arme à part dans la production .
Sorry mais c'est un classique système de unique 51bis avec une coque en plastique et en aucun cas une production à part cela se saurait. Un coups marketing tout au plus pour relancer les ventes .

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